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I have to agree with that. Some of the funnest dances I have had came while having to improvise (ie a pole was in the way)
And I do mean swing dances btw.
was it you and lindy snob
Buzz:And I do mean swing dances btw.
Suuure wilbur...
I think I've been misunderstood. I totally agree that you can have fun no matter who you dance with and no matter what your ability is.
t_roach:Over all, I still stand by the saying that no such a thing as a mess up on the dance floor, only new steps (or syncopations).
I agree to a point. I think it only applies to the social dance floor, as long as nobody gets hurt, but sometimes you just screw up and have to start over. Is it a big deal worth worrying about? Not at all. Performances are different, a little. A mess up in a performance is a mess up, though the judges should take into account how well you recover. If you turn it into something cool or funny I don't think judges should dock you for that.
I still stand by my previous statements though. Just because a "screw up" isn't a big deal, and often turns into something fun doesn't mean you should be satisfied with screwing up your leading and following all the time. Learn from the screw ups, but also learn how to properly lead what you were trying to lead when you came up with the new move.
I agree with pop.
Amazing, I know, but I do.
I think that as long as you can keep your connection when you dance, and as long as both partners are willing to adapt to whatever happens on the floor, that you can't have a social dance mistake. Even if you completely biff a move, you can call it style, as long as you don't break connection.
This is not about "spoon feeding" your follows or leads-- it's about learning how to take your momentum/ footwork/ whatever else you're messing up on and redirect it in a new way. This is where some of your most interesting adaptations can come out, and is an important part of improving, because it stretches your abilities in new ways.
That said, I love to clarify what it is that the lead intended when I don't follow correctly, because then you have more options and learn how to read your lead better. But as has been said, it shouldn't be a big deal when a lead or follow does something different than you expect-- a lead is an invitation, not a mandate, and a follow is an interpretation, not the One True Response.
I agree with Gumby, that leads and follows being able to critique each other in a positive, but forthright way is important. How else are we going to improve, unless we get feedback? And while we're on the topic of critiqueing (sp?) if you're going to give it, make sure you can take it. But I think the Utah scene is pretty good about not making whoever they're dancing with go off in tears because they aren't leading/ following right [Emoticon not found]
Buzz:I agree with pop.
Amazing, I know, but I do.
[Emoticon not found] I'm writing this in my journal! Wait, I don't keep a consistent journal. doh! I should though...
Effervescence:I think that as long as you can keep your connection when you dance, and as long as both partners are willing to adapt to whatever happens on the floor, that you can't have a social dance mistake. Even if you completely biff a move, you can call it style, as long as you don't break connection.
You must screw up in completely different ways than I do. Sometimes I just screw up and there's no other word for it. If I called it "style," I'd be lying to myself and/or would be quite horrified at my "style." I think it's nice to say that there are no screw ups, but that seems awfully idealistic to me. Who are we trying to fool? We screw up, we have fun, we learn, we screw up, we have fun, we learn... I don't think we need to call "screw ups" something else so we can feel better about it. They are what they are and sometimes we turn them into other moves and it's cool, sometimes it hurts, sometimes it's just funny. Please don't take this wrong. You can call it what you want, this is just my opinion. No offense intended.
Also, I don't think critique should ever happen on the social dance floor (unless you're getting hurt). This has been covered may times on dance forums all over, including this one.
Yes, you can mess up. But if you keep a perfect connection, it becomes a new move, because you still have the ability to correct it or to turn it into a stylized thing. The bad mess-ups really only seem to come when you break connection, because that's when you can no longer recover or make it look cool despite the mess-up.
You're right, that it shouldn't be on the dance floor. How about right after a dance, in a civil manner. I stand corrected.
I'll let ya'll be the judge of whether this constitutes as a screw up.
When Cheri and I were just first beginning to court, we went to the BYU Dance Lab in the Wilk. We danced swing during a 'foxtrot' song, of course. I don't quite remember all the details, but it went something like this. I brought Cheri in for a dip but then had to make a movement to avoid a floorcraft-less dancer. Cheri thought it was a dip she had not done before. She continued to dip. I tried to catch her and succeeded. For a bit. She hung suspended for a second or two until my balance finally gave out and we both went tumbling to the floor. We laid there for a while and laughed, then got up and continued dancing.
An onlooker came up to us afterwards and wanted us to teach him "that awesome move."
I think its ok to make some corrections on the social dance floor. I know ill get reamed for this but, there was a fast song that was play this weekend and I asked a follow to dance. It was obvioius about half way through that she hadnt danced a lot of fast stuff no big deal im not that great at fast songs. To make it so we were on some kind of beat and not take up to much space because we were at the house I went into side by side charlston the follow thought good form was putting a ton of presure into my right hand and moving her bodyabout a foot behind me so she could copy my footsteps I tryed to rotate thinking that she might being trying to back lead a little (no big deal but she kept trying to stay behind me. It didnt hurt but I couldnt lead or do any moves. I wasnt hurt but it was very uncomfortible. So I asked her to move her hip up next to mine and then we could dance she followed I was able to lead. and best of all I didnt fall over because I was being drug backwords. I dont really like blanket statements so instead of saying "I don't think critique should ever happen on the social dance floor (unless you're getting hurt)." say "I don't think critique shouldnt happen on the social dance floor in most cases (unless you're getting hurt)." and then ill agree with you. It is much less rude to correct someone on the social dance floor IMO then to walk out in the middle of the dance or say things behind their backs after you have danced with them.
scott
Semantics! You screw up and maintain perfect connection? I probably wouldn't even call that a screw up unless it was in a routine. So yeah, I can see why you'd call that a new move.
I guess we'll just have to disagree on the social dance floor etiquette. I can only think of one time where I've corrected something someone was doing while dancing socially, and that early last year. I won't give feedback even when I'm asked for it after a song. I might if someone were to ask me before a song, but it's doubtful. I dance to have fun, not to teach. Selfish? eh. whatever. Practicing something with someone while at a dance is different I think. I do that all the time "hey, can you feel the difference between these two swing outs?" or "hey can I try something with you?" Then afterwards I might ask her to dance or vise versa or whatever. I'm okay with that.
I'm not counting dancing at Studio 600 because that's kinda like social dancing/teaching. Though, the more I dance with those newer follows the less advice I give even though I could give a lot.
Hey Fervy can you use an extra hard return between paragraphs? T'anks. [Emoticon not found]
Effervescence:I think that as long as you can keep your connection when you dance, and as long as both partners are willing to adapt to whatever happens on the floor, that you can't have a social dance mistake. Even if you completely biff a move, you can call it style, as long as you don't break connection.
This is not about "spoon feeding" your follows or leads-- it's about learning how to take your momentum/ footwork/ whatever else you're messing up on and redirect it in a new way. This is where some of your most interesting adaptations can come out, and is an important part of improving, because it stretches your abilities in new ways.
That said, I love to clarify what it is that the lead intended when I don't follow correctly, because then you have more options and learn how to read your lead better. But as has been said, it shouldn't be a big deal when a lead or follow does something different than you expect-- a lead is an invitation, not a mandate, and a follow is an interpretation, not the One True Response.
I agree with Gumby, that leads and follows being able to critique each other in a positive, but forthright way is important. How else are we going to improve, unless we get feedback? And while we're on the topic of critiqueing (sp?) if you're going to give it, make sure you can take it. But I think the Utah scene is pretty good about not making whoever they're dancing with go off in tears because they aren't leading/ following right [Emoticon not found]
Lol Fervy?
You got it, Grant.
Better?
Haha Fervy. I like it!
it kinda reminds me of
http://www.hasbro.com/furby/
Only with a speech impediment. [Emoticon not found]
gumby:it kinda reminds me of
http://www.hasbro.com/furby/
cute? fluffy? ... annoying???
Take your pick, I suppose...
lol