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So I was a little surprised by the universal application of the progressive lesson tonight for oldies and newbies alike. I wish I'd been able to attend teacher training last month, but issues of time and space prevented that.
The biggest shock was foregoing the basic open swing out for a closed 6 count basic. Honestly I haven't spent much time in closed position and don't quite know what to do there. You do have a solid back lead for turns, etc.
Honestly I've been in a swing rut lately, so shaking things up is good. What do ya'll think about the new approach?
necessary
We're really excited about bringing the "basics" truly back to the basics, just like you said with closed position (for example). I consider it a place to establish connection at the beginning of a dance, whether I know the girl/follow or not. How does this person feel the music, respond to my lead, how do I respond to this person's follow? It's all literally much more connected. There's much more I'd love to say, but I'm reading a sweet paper on the history of public health [Emoticon not found]
I'm hoping that it will help everyone get to a new, higher level with their dancing, whether you're just starting or wanting to get out of a rut.
yay for basics!
i hate basics. i got bored learning to do a swingout so i went and taught other people to do aerials in the back of the room. after all, that's why they want to swing dance. who cares about rhythm and connection and musicality... and the ability to lead. as long as i can toss my gal around, i'm happy.
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hey and scott and liz did a great job!
I rarely start dancing in open position.
It just feels so...
unconnected.
As often as not I do an under arm turn or pass working my way to a spot on the floor that looks roomy. I've never really watched others to see how they start.
Other cool things to be learned or relearned in the 1st 4-week fundamental classes -- leverage/compression, initiating/redirecting/absorbing momentum, the triple-step in all its diversified glory, point(s) of connection/frame & the solar plexus, keeping it simple and looking rad, ... what else? [Emoticon not found]
If you're not watching other people dance, you're going to have a harder time improving.
Watch how they start, if they're at all aware of the music (and if they are how do they handle phrases, breaks, etc), watch their ugly resets and where they put them (the reset is found all over, not just at the beginning of the swingout), how they dip, do they dip often in the middle of songs?, do they always end every dance with a dip?, watch how they habitually tap their foot the same way everytime they should be doing triple steps, if they vary what they do with their free arm or if they always do the same programmed thing, if they dance the same as they did last month or last year, the way their head twitches and moves, where their weight is positioned, how grounded they are (are they connected with the floor?), the leverage and compression they use, if they're smiling, if they're paying attention to their partner, how they initiate/redirect/absorb momentum, if they are constantly stopping and starting momentum (bad), or if they keep the momentum flowing all the time (good), if and how they're breaking frame, how they're keeping frame, how they mess up, how they correct mistakes, if they are keeping a consistent bounce in their dancing, if the follow is matching the lead's bounce (or lack thereof), what kind of movement do they generally lead (do they lean toward lots of charleston, lots of balboa, or lots of blues?), if they are light on their feet, does it look like they are really improvising or going through a pre-programmed set of moves, are their tuck turns and side passes always 8 count or do they throw in 6 count variations, do they ever throw in a 4 count pass by, are they using their partner or dancing by themselves with a partner (connection), are they clear and definite or wishy washy, do they maintain a consistent rythmn, are they keeping their shoulders back? (frame), do they have a good posture, is the lead moving himself or the follow (you should move yourself, not the follow), do they mess up or get flustered when something happens that they're not familiar with (hijacking or unfamiliar leads), if they're relaxed, if they stay relaxed (if they ever were relaxed) as the BPM increases, if they notice when other people are watching (awareness level), if they're aware of who is dancing next to them (awareness level), how often the lead lets the follow hit other people or get hit by other people (awareness level. no, it's not exactly possible to prevent every collision), if the lead stays in mostly one place for the swingout or not, if the lead stays in one general area for the whole song, if the lead moves to a different spot on the floor if bombared by collisions, if the follow is aware of where she is going, if the follow prevents collisions, how far they extend their arms at the end/beginning of the swing out, is the follow running ahead of the lead (is she/he anticipating?), is the follow slightly behind the lead (not anticipating), etc etc etc. I could go on and on.
Oh yeah, and you should watch other people so you can steal their moves.
But... the most important for me is to watch how they move and take the movement I like.
Heh.
Sweet... Pop you da man... You should be teaching the beginner classes dude.. I hate teaching beginner lessons... I think overall I just prefer teaching advanced classes. Hope all the lessons go well and we start seeing some progress on the dance floor with al the basic stuff being taught
Boogaloo:Sweet... Pop you da man... You should be teaching the beginner classes dude.. I hate teaching beginner lessons... I think overall I just prefer teaching advanced classes. Hope all the lessons go well and we start seeing some progress on the dance floor with al the basic stuff being taught
I prefer philosophizing about dancing and then working with just a few people on something. I will teach beginner lessons, but I'm with you in that I'd rather teach advanced classes. Actually, I don't really like teaching classes at all unless I'm just lecturing.
Yes!! Same here dude... I think I started philosophizing about dance concepts and started getting more into like the whole zen of dance and the small intricate parts that make up the whole like about 4 years ago... When I was able to take apart the swing out piece by piece and put it back together in a matter of speaking I was able to learn beter and faster and it made it a lot easier to adapt to all the other styles out there.
I think in order for me to teach the basic right I would require more than just one set of lessons... I guess what I'm trying to say is that the swing out is a concept that is constantly evolving and adapting... Much like us dancers do.. So the swing out to me is the core for all lindy hop patterns and in order to become a better dancer as a whole you have to constantly practice and re-learn the swing out, forward, reverse, fast, slow, lower and higher center of gravity, more and less tension, changing directions.. Shortning and lengthening the basic.. And learning how to mix a quick 6 count swing out with an 8 count swing out seamlessly and be able to adapt it in your social dancing.. Transitions, and using the ground more and less as you dance as well as using your partner more and less.. Letting the follow take the lead sometimes as well as communicating a change of role.. Blah blah blah... See now you got me going.. But yeah I prefer a long lecture or discussion of the swing out with my peers and then exploring all the options rather than teaching it...
Word, I think that's why I get frustrated with teaching beginning lessons. I want to philosophize about it and confuse the poor beginners. [Emoticon not found]
The best progressive lesson is one that never ends.
Word.. Word.. Hey maybe we should have a club for this sort of thing
sounds good to me
i like teaching beginner lessons. it's cool. tho, if i were to do it again, i definately like the idea of teaching six-count basics to beginners before swingouts. but without all the hoppiness that byu's "social dance" class teaches. 'cause that's lame. it seems to be easier to grasp when you're just learning to dance, and you can do more with it right away.
But I have to wait 5 more days to see what comes next. . .
As a disclaimer for my really long post on the previous page:
I do not recommend that everone pay attention to all of that all the time. The purpose of it was to show all the things you could pay attention to and basically to encourage people to be more aware of what they can learn from observance.
Pay attention to your partner.
Pay attention to what's around you just enough to keep your partner from hitting things/people.
Don't critique people's dancing when you're dancing with them unless you're in a class or specifically asked to do so.
so i think we might have beaten this topic to a bloody pulp earlier, but i don't think it's quite dead yet. [Emoticon not found]
is it ok to ask your partner after the dance, "can i offer you a tip?" or something similar that doesn't sound so pompous? of course, your partner has every right to say no, and if they say no, then you thank them and go on your merry way. but if they say yes, you say what you need to say nicely, and briefly. thoughts? anyone? bueller?
Well, I'm definitely of the opinion that teaching should be left for teachers during lessons and when requested. Otherwise, it's a no-no. One of the guidelines (more like guidelines than actual rules) I wanted to establish during the BYU lessons is as follows:
Be patient, and refrain from criticism with your partner. It’s very rare that you will both learn at the exact same pace, so if your partner is faring worse than you, don’t try helping them out with some criticism. It usually just makes them feel pressured, making it even more difficult to learn.
I've never had success giving unsolicited advice or criticism or whatever.
I think my opinion before has been "it's okay if the advice is solicited." Or maybe "if you ask me before we dance, then I might have advice, but not if you only ask after."
But now, I would say that, on the dance floor, advice is never appropriate. Don't ask, don't give. (unless you actually get hurt)
Here's the topic:
"The New Progressive lessons teach beginner follows to rockstep on counts 1-2 of a swing out from open position."
::gasp:: [Emoticon not found] What are you're thoughts? Advantages? Disadvantages? Esp. after seeing it taught recently to newbies straight off the street.
I've been deliberatingly teaching it this way for a while now (esp. since May). But is it working out when taught by other people?
Not being a follow, I noticed the difference, but I'm not quite sure what it does to the dynamics of the step to have the follow rockstep.
You do have more of a stretch, and it may not be entirely desirable for fast dancing. hmmm. . .
Actually it makes fast dancing easier, especially if you want to transition to a charleston swing out.
Watch the ULHS06 Fast Division, Hellzapoppin, or any good fast social dancing (or actually West Coast or Lindy Hop at any tempo for that matter) again, but with the idea of stretching on count one in mind. Post your thoughts. [Emoticon not found]
t_roach:(or actually West Coast or Lindy Hop at any tempo for that matter)
How dare you use the sacred name of Lindy and the evil name of West Coast in the same sentence!!! BLASPHEMY
I say we stone Grant.
I say we get Grant stoned. [Emoticon not found]
Yeah!!! But wait until our charleston challenge this friday... Then you can stone him all you want... In fact I say the loser of the challenge gets a pie in the face
That's it dawgs, I challenge all y'all to a no-holds-barred west coast dance off!!! [Emoticon not found]
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Oh, the stretch. You should always stretch. If you're not stretching, you're not stretching.
wow. that was profound. i think you've just changed my entire outlook on life.
I have that effect on people.
I hear of other effects you have on people....
The list is seemingly never-ending.
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Supposedly so are some of the "effects"
I like it that way, though I prefer to call it "leaving an impression."
impression, scar, what's the difference?
Scar... gaping wound... all the same
Mere semantical differences...
popthestack:Word, I think that's why I get frustrated with teaching beginning lessons. I want to philosophize about it and confuse the poor beginners. [Emoticon not found]
The best progressive lesson is one that never ends.
Is that why you stopped teaching privates with James and I? [Emoticon not found]
I didn't think I was that bad???
See this topic is so confusing. Cause I know that there are good dancers and I totally want advice on how to improve. So are you guys saying that I shouldn't ask as the beginning or the end on ways I can improve. Then how do I improve???? I haven't been asking I have been shy, but I sure have been wanting too? Sigh....... [Emoticon not found]
greaserdoll:popthestack:Word, I think that's why I get frustrated with teaching beginning lessons. I want to philosophize about it and confuse the poor beginners. [Emoticon not found]
The best progressive lesson is one that never ends.
Is that why you stopped teaching privates with James and I? [Emoticon not found]
I didn't think I was that bad???
Oh no no! I'm just way too busy for it. I've even partially changed my place of residence to easier accommodate more working hours. I may move completely.
greaserdoll:See this topic is so confusing. Cause I know that there are good dancers and I totally want advice on how to improve. So are you guys saying that I shouldn't ask as the beginning or the end on ways I can improve. Then how do I improve???? I haven't been asking I have been shy, but I sure have been wanting too? Sigh....... [Emoticon not found]
I think it's okay to ask for advice on the social dance floor from people who taught the lesson that particular night. It's also okay I think to ask for advise from the same role as you (ie, follows ask follows, leads ask leads).
???
Assuming that the guy I want to ask about his awesome spin isn't otherwise engaged at the moment, I think asking him is fine.
greaserdoll:See this topic is so confusing. Cause I know that there are good dancers and I totally want advice on how to improve. So are you guys saying that I shouldn't ask as the beginning or the end on ways I can improve. Then how do I improve???? I haven't been asking I have been shy, but I sure have been wanting too? Sigh....... [Emoticon not found]
Ask away! Just understand it's sometimes hard to give a great answer while the dance is going on (really it depends on the teacher). But make mention of it so that you both can get together some other time to work on it and know exactly what it was you wanted to learn.
SpecialK:Assuming that the guy I want to ask about his awesome spin isn't engaged, I think asking him is fine.
Of course, always talking about marriage. Silly. [Emoticon not found]
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Let me just say this.. If you are Ryan, Grant, Thomas, Justin, and or Shane. Please feel free to tell me on things that I need to work on. At any time! If you see me dancing with others incorrectly or yourselves. You don't have to. But I would LOVE the help. [Emoticon not found]
POP I know your busy! I totally understand you can't. That is why I need your help when I dance with you. [Emoticon not found] I hope I am making sense. Sigh.. I should just shut up! LOL [Emoticon not found]
greaserdoll:Let me just say this.. If you are Ryan, Grant, Thomas, Justin, and or Shane. Please feel free to tell me on things that I need to work on. At any time!
Ah sadness... I didn't make the 1337 list [Emoticon not found]
SpecialK:Assuming that the guy I want to ask about his awesome spin isn't otherwise engaged at the moment, I think asking him is fine.
Hmm... I was engaged once...