Name: Grant

Reason for nickname T_Roach: Ask Ron

Connection to BYU Swing Kids: I am a Lindy Child of one of your founders -- Kacy (fyi and in other words, so is Jazzy J & USU's entire swing club. Ya back in the day, everyone at BYU danced like ron! :o )

Lindy Crushes: Well, I'll just say I redeveloped some lindy crushes on some of your follows at Shane & Julie's new venue [Emoticon not found] [Emoticon not found] [Emoticon not found]

Currently live in LA

... l8er

=D

hi grant. and welcome.

T-roach lives in Utah again. Yeah!

Welcome, oh great insectile one!

it's true. i started dancing at BYU (the first time) when people were starting to transition to the current smooth style. good times. ya gotta love "savoy" lessons.

Sweet

Specialk still doesn't know what Savoy styling is.

I prefer to dance the "Ryan" style... which if you had to classify it, it'd probably fall in between "savoy" and "hollywood," but I'd really rather not classify it. I think the classifcations are lame past a certain point. Everyone choses their own distinct style.

popthestack:

I prefer to dance the "Ryan" style... which if you had to classify it, it'd probably fall in between "savoy" and "hollywood," but I'd really rather not classify it. I think the classifcations are lame past a certain point. Everyone choses their own distinct style.

I completely agree.... while there are certain broad categories that one can use, everyone dances differently and in a unique way. I don't even really know what hollywood style is, but Mary said I was doing it, so I dunno...

Boogaloo:

This is getting interesting

let's hear what the boogalo has to say...

I can see the resemblance

Shut up!!!... ok I guess I will post my opinion on this whole styling thing..here it goes

ElChuy:

.... while there are certain broad categories that one can use, everyone dances differently and in a unique way. I don't even really know what hollywood style is, but Mary said I was doing it, so I dunno...

The way I've had it explained to me is thus: Savoy tends to be lower and bouncy. Hollywood is very smooth and not so low.

Well my opinion on style is basically this.. I believe music is the biggest influence on what style you ultimately choose to dance.. for example I am a big fan of pre WWII swing.. thus my style fits the tempo and feel of the era.. .as compared say to someone who prefers the more Rock and Roll I.E. Bill Haley or later styling of Big Band music I.E. Andrews Sisters Tommy Dorsey.. Now most people would say I am a "Savoy Style" dancer due to my posture, bounce, movement and pattern preference on the dance floor.. however I have learned some very interesting things about "Savoy Style" dancing such as, my posture in the beginning was all wrong as was my lead and footwork... now the changes i made to my overall technic came from being diverse in my choice of teachers as well as music selection... overall I found there is a universal structure for being a good social dancer regardless of style.

With that being said I don't believe I need to correct or add anything else to what some of my other fellow dancers have already added on this topic, as I believe they are correct... so in conclusion if you want to experience the feel and look of the two distinct style I would say, 1. Go check out Seattle dancers on a Sunday or Monday night... and 2. then fly out to L.A. and watch them dance on a Friday night at one of their venues.. .you will get a good feel for the two distinct yet similar styles.

I have found it's all in the feel of the music.. in my experience if you are educated in the basic structures of Lindy Hop social dancing you will dance completely different to (See Ya Later Alligator-Bill Haley) then you would to (Good Queen Bess-Duke Ellington)... on the faster tempo side we can take as an example (Beat me Daddy Eight to The Bar-Andrews Sisters) and then (jumpin' At The Woodside-Count Basie) The music feels very different and it will make you feel like moving differently.. or not at all, depending on your preference

Thanks Pop... You my friend are one sriously bad A.. dancer.. I have a lot of respect for you Bro.

The real difference between "savoy" and "hollywood":

"I dance Savoy style" = I'm a beginner who has trouble dancing with advanced people and I want to pretend that it's because I dance a more classic and historically pure form of Lindy.

"I dance Hollywood style" = I'm a beginner who has trouble dancing with advanced people and I want to pretend that it's because I dance a more contemporary and cool modern form of Lindy.

I'll bet if you took out certain video clips of Franky Manning and Dean Collins and blacked out the dancers' faces and clothes, most would guess Franky to be Hollywood and Dean to be Savoy... not that it matters because the whole Savoy and Hollywood thing is pretty much a facade from people who either never saw old videos or, if they ever watched any old videos, couldn't understand what they were watching.

I've even seen a lot of people here distinctly dance a simplified form of West Coast Swing and call it Savoy style. The term "Savoy Style" didn't exist until the late 1980's and the term "Hollywood Style" didn't come to being until the mid- 1990's, if that gives anyone some historical perspective. As an old dance teacher once said, if "you can't dance with everyone", leave off the last two words.

Thanks Boogaloo and California for your input! Well said. California, I would only make slight changes:

"I dance Savoy style" = I'm a beginner who has trouble dancing with advanced people and I want to pretend that it's because I dance a more classic and historically pure form of Lindy by trying to imitate modern dancers who want to dance like these or those dancers from the 30s, 40s, & 50s.

"I dance Hollywood style" = I'm a beginner who has trouble dancing with advanced people and I want to pretend that it's because I dance a more classic and historically pure form of Lindy by trying to imitate modern dancers who want to dance like these, those, or other dancers from the 30s, 40s, & 50s.

"I dance Smooth style" = I'm a beginner who has trouble dancing with advanced people and I want to pretend that it's because I dance a more contemporary and cool modern form of Lindy.

I had a long conversation with Jazzy J in Wendy's a few years back discussing these very same definitions. At that point in time I had realized that dancers I classified as Hollywood style due to their heavy follow or lead were actually beginner dancers. I thought of Savoy style as having a lighter lead or follow (with the bounce and all that too). Little did I know, the REAL dancers who maybe generally fit under the Savoy or Hollywood catagories danced with the same techniques as any great social dancers and also had bounce, great posture, and light lead/follow (but with increased connection for dynamic changes) etc...

btw, here's my fave quote on the subject.

Get That Swing, Live with swing dance legend Frankie Manning

Tuesday, January 26, 1999:

Redondo Beach, California: Hi Frankie, My name is Max and I go to PBDA (Erine's place) to Lindy. I do the Savoy style Lindy and I love it so much. It has a life and joy and so much more. As far as I'm concerned, that is the only REAL Lindy hop. However, There are some people who teach Dean Collin's so called "Hollywood style." In my opinion, that is an imitation. But it seems like that style is taking over the LA swing scene since Swing clubs like The Derby will have Dean collin style Lindy lessons. What is your point of view for Dean Collin's style Lindy Hop? If I dance with a woman who does D.C. Hollywood style, it is very hard for me to lead since their style is totally different...

Frankie Manning: No, it isn't. Hollywood style is just another name. Every section of the country, every city, every burrough has their own style. Dean Collins actually came from New Jersey. I heard that he would come to Savoy and he would dance the way he wanted to dance. When he went to California he was still dancing the same way he danced here. It's just a matter of adjusting to the feel of a song. If it's hard for the leaders, it's because you're having trouble adjusting. You should adjust to what your partner's doing and not try to overshadow her.

california:

I like that quote... you should pull it up every time this topic comes up (which tends to be all too often).

[Emoticon not found] I seriously try to! But the alleged rift between the two "styles" seems to persist in theory or at least some people's minds.

With each of those styles there definitely have been GREAT dancers that have called their personal style savoy, hollywood, smooth, or raw, etc... It's the beginner's that try to say "Oh I'm this style" and end up giving that style a bad name or these rifts appear; I certainly was guilty of it. We were HARDCORE savoy style up in logan thanks to Jazzy J's and my teacher. Jason taught in SLC/Provo and Kacy taught up in Logan, hence to the two alleged camps in utah up till a couple years ago. BUT I still have great respect for those who once might have stylings considered savoy (steven mitchell, ryan francois, jenny thomas), hollywood/dean collin's style (erik robinson, sylvia skylar, marcus koch & Bärbl), smooth (kevin st. laurent, karla heiney), raw (maddog!), OR sasmoothywood!

Question and thoughts: In my eyes, "savoy" and "hollywood" were attempting to revive old styles of dance. Does smooth do that? Or is it a result of west coast and lindy hop getting merged into a newer style?

Well put.