OK here's some questions for all you dancers and music fans..

1. When going out to a Swing Dance would you like to have a mix of all forms of Swing (East and West Coast?) what other forms of dancing would you throw in the mix?

2. What is Swing Music? Is it also a mix of different Types of Music?

3. If the dance becomes mixed in with so many influences from other dance forms in your opinion is it still Swing Dancing.. or is it a different animal altogether

4. What do you think Swing Dances were like in the 30's at the Savoy.. was it a mix of what was popular at the time as well?

5. (Last Question) Are Swing dancing and Lindy Hop different

I am interested in hearing evryone's point of view in this subject, I am not trying to prove any points or make enemies or start an argument.. or make people take sides.. it's simply an open question to get everyone's imput.. I would like to see how the scene views this thing we call "Swing".. here's my reason.. I think everywhere you go there is somewhat of a division in swing.. It is rather broad compared to what I'm used to from other dancing I've done. And for the past 5 years I have made many attempts to understand it... I think perhaps it would help us all understand each other better if we knew how the other half felt about our dancing, music and so forth. I know we can't please everyone all the time.. But it would be nice to have a scene where we can all get the music and dancing we want when we go to the events and dances..

bobthecow:

i just wanted to say that you're wrong. figured i'd take a preemptive strike...

That's the spirit, W.

t_roach:

I've heard that at the Savoy, in order to get people to finally go home, the band would play a waltz. [Emoticon not found] seriously

yeah, I remember frankie saying that at harlem nights '05! [Emoticon not found]

bobthecow:

i just wanted to say that you're wrong. figured i'd take a preemptive strike...

well you're wrong about me being wrong!

this is a great argument.

Yeah.. thanks for all the input people.. seriously!!

Boogaloo:

OK here's some questions for all you dancers and music fans..

1. When going out to a Swing Dance would you like to have a mix of all forms of Swing (East and West Coast?) what other forms of dancing would you throw in the mix?

When I am at a dance, I like getting a good mix. Why? Because I like dancing lots of different forms of dance. I have had some great dances in Lindy, Westy, even Foxtrot and Quickstep. Practicing dance helps me understand more and, I feel, betters my form in general, no matter what style the dance may be.

Boogaloo:

2. What is Swing Music? Is it also a mix of different styles of dancing?

Isn't swing music anything that swings? I think I don't quite understand this one. Are you asking if music is dancing or if you can dance different styles to 'swing music' or what?

Boogaloo:

3. If the dance becomes mixed in with so many influences from other dance forms in your opinion is it still Swing Dancing.. or is it a different animal altogether

I would say that it should be limited at least a little bit. Otherwise I fear it would break down into a "Top 40s" Dance, where you only get 1 or 2 songs that you can dance to and end up doing the "Deacon Shuffle" or the "Head Bob" (no offense BTC) to the rest.

Boogaloo:

4. What do you think Swing Dances were like in the 30's at the Savoy.. was it a mix of what was popular at the time as well?

I imagine that they probably played what was popular at the times. They played a waltz to make people go home because waltz was quite unpopular with that group (from what I understand) It seems to me that the bands would play the music that the dancers liked.

Boogaloo:

5. (Last Question) Are Swing dancing and Lindy Hop different

In my opinion, Lindy Hop is just one form of swing dancing.

I'm with Krupa on this one [Emoticon not found]

"I Get Paid for Dance Music,

The Art's Thrown in Extra"

by Gene Krupa (As told to Down Beat's Editors)

I think it is all a lot of bunk! This talk circulating about whether a jazz musician is a musical prostitute for compromising with his art and playing "down" to the public.

I think those sideline jivesters and Monday morning quarterbacks ought to get lost! It is pretty obvious to me and almost every other band leader in the business today exactly what the purpose and duty of a dance musician and leader is to his public. And there are no Pulitzer Prizes in dance music!

I don’t say to hell with the art. I’m all for good taste in playing swing or jazz, or whatever you want to call it. But I call it dance music. Why? You are damned right, because I get paid for playing dance music!

When a hotel manager buys my orchestra to play for his spot, my job is to entertain the people who come to entertain the people who come there. I know my musicians won’t have to stand on their heads to make the people like them. I also know my band can stand or fall on its music. But the public wants danceable music, so I’ll give them that. There’s no pretense from the beginning that every tune we play is worthy of comparison to the best. We’re not trying to outdo anyone. We don’t want to be King. We just want to entertain.

“We Shell Out Soft Lights”

And we try our best to entertain the people who like Sammy Kaye and Guy Lombardo, because we can shell out soft lights and stardust just as seductively as they. We’re not competing with memories of Bix, fading notes of Teschemacher, or any art in jazz. We just want to entertain the public.

A dance band can never be completely free from the bondage of commercial music. It is a simple fact, and must be recognized. I’m not agreeing, though, that a band must be hackneyed. When we play something like Blue Rhythm Fantasy, I know that it is artistic. Yet, it happens to also contain the flavor of commercialism. The public will accept it, but not for any art value. It happens to be entertaining, so it is requested. But the public also requests a lot of incidental popular stuff, and we play it because we are paid to play it. Try to meet a $2,500 a week payroll by not playing a goodly share of commercial stuff.

‘I’m no Bohemian’

I don’t want any artistic temperament in my outfit. I want capable musicians who can play the kind of music we are paid to play. And that kind of music is listenable and danceable music. The Bohemians in jazz can hi away to the confines of the swing clubs, I’m no Bohemian in jazz. I’m a band leader, and I try my damndest to play entertaining music.

Sure we put on a show! The best we know how to. You collect $8,000 or more a week at theater box-offices to make people come back again. You can’t be an artist and play in dance music. I’m no pretender for the honors in jazz art. But I do make my bid for public favor on the basis of what kind of a show my band’ll put on. My dance band is a working unit, for sale for a price. Meet the price, and the band is yours.

Let the sideline critics consider my music as such. Dance music is a matter of individual preference. And the best way to gauge the preference of the public is what the box-office says. I’m not playing “down” to the public, I’m playing “up” to it.

(Nov. 1, 1941)

All I saw from your post was:

Let the sideline critics consider my music as such. Dance music is a matter of individual preference. And the best way to gauge the preference of the public is what the box-office says. I’m not playing “down” to the public, I’m playing “up” to it.

doh

Although it may not be welcome, here's my take:

Boogaloo:

1. When going out to a Swing Dance would you like to have a mix of all forms of Swing (East and West Coast?) what other forms of dancing would you throw in the mix?

Depends on who the crowd is... if there are mixed dancers, play mixed music. If there are some bluesy dancers, toss in some blues music; if there are experimental swing dancers, throw in some contemporary; if there are lots of ballroom dancers, throw in an occasional cha-cha--that should shut 'em up. [Emoticon not found]

Boogaloo:

2. What is Swing Music? Is it also a mix of different Types of Music?

4/4 time, healthy amount of pulsing on the upbeats, good driving progression. Doesn't necessarily require swung 8th's to be swingable, but if the 8th's are straight, they should not be too "tight" (y'all can ask me later if you want). Boogie-woogie style blues and 50's style rock-and-roll music have some good examples of swingable straight 8th's. On the other hand, if dancers can't roll the count, it's probably too tight to be a good swing song.

Many would be surprised to note that a lot of modern pop music can still be swung pretty well, and it meets all the criteria of the old music. It's just 30-60 BPM slower on average than a classic swing song. Tempo is usually just a personal preference.

Boogaloo:

3. If the dance becomes mixed in with so many influences from other dance forms in your opinion is it still Swing Dancing.. or is it a different animal altogether

If the basics are left in tact and all the new material is being built from the basics, it's still swing. But then again, there's nothing wrong with throwing in stuff from other dances now and again as long as you know you're doing it.

Boogaloo:

4. What do you think Swing Dances were like in the 30's at the Savoy.. was it a mix of what was popular at the time as well?

I think they all wore Kippy-belts. j/k.

Boogaloo:

5. (Last Question) Are Swing dancing and Lindy Hop different

In my experience, folks in Southern CA usually say "swing" and mean WCS, and when people in New England say "swing", they mean Lindy and only Lindy. There are lots of kinds of swing, and Lindy is definitely one of them. There was a time when all the swings danced together, and they still could if they wanted. There are some literal differences, but they aren't major.

My concept of "swing dance":

All the swings have 4-beat, 6-beat, and 8-beat foundation patterns including whips, passes, underarm turns, rhythm breaks, opening and closing patterns, and 4-beat starter steps. They all employ the use of some sort of rubber-band effect to set a new pattern into motion, and they all share the same basic rhythms which primarily consist of doubles and triples. All swing dances can be improved through the incorporation of connection, critical timing, centering, and pulsing. Lindy Hop, West Coast Swing, Carolina Shag, DC Hand Dancing, Texas Whip, Imperial Swing, and many others qualify.

In short, yeah, Lindy Hop is definitely swing, but "swing" doesn't always refer to Lindy Hop. In some regions, the word "swing" defaults to Lindy and in others, it defaults to something else; that's just regional preference.

Okay, I forgot about my reply. I typed this when this thread was orginally started. I have modified it a bit though.

Boogaloo:

1. When going out to a Swing Dance would you like to have a mix of all forms of Swing (East and West Coast?) what other forms of dancing would you throw in the mix?

I would only mix east coast and lindy hop, since the music is mostly the same (although some people would define East Coast music as neo-swing music). If I wanted West Coast, I'd attened a West Coast dance. I expect the same from other people. If you want Salsa, attend a Salsa event. If you want Waltz, attend a dance that'll give you Waltz... etc. etc.

Of course, people will say "but we want a mix." Great, have a mix, make sure I know it's going to be a mix so I don't attend. If it's a lindy hop venue, I expect lindy hop*. If I attend a Salsa venue, I expect Salsa. If I attend a blues party, I expect blues. Have you EVER seen me at blues party that was advertised as such? Nope (late night in sacramento might qualify, but I didn't exactly have much flexibilty with my transportation). Will I EVER attend one? Nope.

* Unfortunately for me, it seems the only venue around here that is advertised as a "lindy hop" venue is the Golden Skillet. May the Golden Skillet live a long and happy life.

So I guess I should expect the variety of "swing" music that we get around here and not complain. I guess I just like to keep my hopes high that it'll change someday.

Boogaloo:

2. What is Swing Music? Is it also a mix of different styles of dancing?

From Wikipedia: In music, a swung note or shuffle note is the rhythmic device in which the duration of the initial note in a pair is augmented and that of the second is diminished. A swing or shuffle rhythm is the rhythm produced by playing repeated pairs of notes in this way. Lilting can refer to swinging, but might also indicate syncopation or other subtle ways of interpreting and shaping musical time.

So, by the true definition of "swing music," can hip hop, westie music, and other music mixed into to some of our dances be called swing music? They sure don't feel swingy to me. [Emoticon not found]

So is it also a mix of different styles of dancing? I would say no. Well, yes and no. Yes in that swing music can be one of the different genres of swing, but no in that I don't think the different types of music should be mixed at dances.

Boogaloo:

3. If the dance becomes mixed in with so many influences from other dance forms in your opinion is it still Swing Dancing.. or is it a different animal altogether

It's an entirely different animal. I'm trying to imagine what Camp Jitterbug would have been like if the whole event had been a mix. HAHAHAHAHA.... that would have been hilarious.

Boogaloo:

4. What do you think Swing Dances were like in the 30's at the Savoy.. was it a mix of what was popular at the time as well?

I heard Frankie Manning say that they'd play swingin' music all night long. When they wanted everyone to leave, they'd play a Waltz or something. Grant also brought this up.

Hearing different styles of music at "lindy hop" dances I go only makes me want to leave. I only stay in hopes that another good song will be played later. You might say I'm desperate.

Can you imagine the hellzapoppin' clip with whitey's lindy hoppers dancing to a 120 BPM pop song? Would that clip even exist at all if music had been mixed together then like it is at some of our venues?

Boogaloo:

5. (Last Question) Are Swing dancing and Lindy Hop different

Yes and no.

From Wikipedia: The term "swing dance" is commonly used to refer either to a group of dances developing during the swing era (late 1920s to 1940s) or to the current dances and dance scenes centred on swing dancing.

"Swing dance" is a term that refers to a group of dances. Lindy Hop is a style of dancing, to say it simply. Lindy Hop is a member of the "swing dance" family. So yes it's different, no it's not exclusively swing.

Disclaimer:

I AM NOT dogging on WCS, ECS, Country Swing or any other type of swing dancing or music. I am expressing my opinion that I think dances should have a specific target audience, that the dances should be advertised as such and stick to it. For dancers who actually want to get good at one style of dacning, creating a mix only distracts and discourages*. If someday I ever decide to take up Salsa dancing I will attend Salsa venues. I will not ask that that music be played at the dances I attend.

* Oh well, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. Some people aren't as crazy about this whole "getting good" thing. Nothing wrong with that. I just hope the number of addicts will increase.

ElChuy:

popthestack:

Boogaloo:

2. What is Swing Music? Is it also a mix of different styles of dancing?

From Wikipedia: In music, a swung note or shuffle note is the rhythmic device in which the duration of the initial note in a pair is augmented and that of the second is diminished. A swing or shuffle rhythm is the rhythm produced by playing repeated pairs of notes in this way. Lilting can refer to swinging, but might also indicate syncopation or other subtle ways of interpreting and shaping musical time.

So, by the true definition of "swing music," can hip hop, westie music, and other music mixed into to some of our dances be called swing music? They sure don't feel swingy to me. [Emoticon not found]

Aside from considerations on the actual merit of the above quoted point, I find it quite amusing that to find the "true" definition of swing music, one resorts to Wikipedia. [Emoticon not found]

Okay, yeah yeah, I shouldn't have said "true." And yes, I know about all the criticism that wikipedia gets. But do you actually disagree with what I quoted?

ElChuy:

popthestack:

For dancers who actually want to get good at one style of dancing, creating a mix only distracts and discourages *. If someday I ever decide to take up Salsa dancing I will attend Salsa venues. I will not ask that that music be played at the dances I attend.

* Oh well, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. Some people aren't as crazy about this whole "getting good" thing. Nothing wrong with that. I just hope the number of addicts will increase. (italics added)

I absolutely and utterly disagree. I think that limiting yourself to only studying and learning about one very limited style of one form of dance is the absolute worse way to go about "getting good" at dancing. While having too large of a mix of dance styles and dance forms might not allow enough time in one's schedule to actually spend enough time dancing a certain style ( which is certainly going to interfere with getting good at said style), I whole-heartedly believe that learning new styles and indeed new dances not only gives the dancer something new and a different way of moving to music but also influences and improves knowledge of existing dance. IE, the body control, principles of connection, etc that I might learn from studying blues, west-coast, bal, shag, or charleston could and almost always do have a very important and positive impact on my lindy hop. And that is a very short list of the huge list of possible dances and dance styles that one can learn to complement and IMPROVE one's existing knowledge of lindy hop (or any other dance).

I'm glad to know you didn't actually read what I wrote. [Emoticon not found]

But, you bring up an important point, with which I agree. I am all for people learning other styles of dance. I believe that learning other styles of dance can help your dancing. I also believe it can make your lindy hop look all fruity and very much not lindy-like if you don't separate it enough, but I digress. (I'm not saying I've seen that happen with anyone on this forum, I really just wanted to use the word fruity.)

Thomas, do you think you would be as good at lindy hop if you'd learned it at a latin dancing venue? I don't think so, and that was my point.

Well, I'm about to throw my hat in the ring here.. there it goes.. I feel like learning different dance styles to imrpove your Lindy Hop is the best thing you can do for it.. seeing how most Lindy Hoppers are not really dancers and most have had very limited training in any dance form.. In My experience as a teacher, dancer and choreographer.. I have seen that 3 main things are important when learning a dance form. 1. Feeling the music, 2. Learning to move your body, 3. Musical interpretation. (connection would be applied to that list as well if you are doing a partner dance)

Learning and applying various forms of dance can bring your dancing to a whole new level.. especially Lindy Hop..

Before there was West coast (1935) we had Lindy Hop (1927) although today they are all thrown in the mix together as Swing.. In my opinion Lindy Hop is the original Swing, many other African American dance forms preceeded Lindy, I.E. Black Bottom, Charleston, Cake Walk, Tap, Jazz and so forth. However Lindy Hop was known as Swing back then and when I first learned it I heard it called Swing also.. Now the topic as to what is Swing dancing and what is not Swing dancing is too controversial of a topic altogether.. but an interesting thread to start at another time perhaps.

As for the music I can see how we all differ in opinions (as it is expected) But on the whole playing different styles of music at dances "I" personally disagree with it wholeheartedly. For me listening to Hip Hop or any other style of music while doing Lindy Hop.. made move and fell .. well Like a Hip hop dancer.. I have seen this to be common in almost everyone I have seen (professional and not) When a Hip Hop or Pop song come on.. you lose all feeling of dancing like a Lindy Hopper.. you will not do a swing out to Shake that A** (Mystykal) as you would to Easy Does it (big 1[Emoticon not found] I hope we can all agree on that.. so something about the dance changes.. good or bad.. it has now changed, not just the look, but the feel and the connection of it as well .. is it still Lindy Hop?.. or Swing if you prefer to call it that... In my opinion no.. it is something like Swing or Lindy Hop.. but it is not Swing or Lindy.. it is something I would like to call Pop Swing.

Now, nothing wrong with people enjoying that form of dance and feel.. however it is not Lindy.. not in my opinion anyway. Lindy to me feels, looks and sounds Lindy.

(for this next section keep in mind that I have been a Hip Hop dancer for 15 years so my views may be a little biased)

When I was first experementing with adding Hip hop movement to my Lindy (swing), I found that when I would mix Hip Hop movement into my Lindy.. it was just that.. Hip Hop.. it looked like Hip Hop and it felt like it too.. So it was weird for me to go on the dance floor and feel that way and do swing outs with variations of Hip Hop influenced movement to Duke Ellington (perdido, rexatious, etc.. etc..) same with any of the great bands of the 30's Webb, Henderson, Basie and so forth. Because their beats swung. and the hits were on 2-4-6-8.. and Hip hop rhythms hit on 1-3-5-7.. so I was really struggling trying to make it all fit.. Because I was really excited to try out all my new ideas, style and movement of Hip Hop into my Lindy Hop. I wanted to try them to whatever was being played.. I was lucky enough though that at the time this was happening there was a big movement of Hip Hop Lindy going on so DJ's were playing Hip Hop and pop music in their sets (probably not in Seattle though [Emoticon not found] ) When this started to happen I was extremely excited as I now didn't have to change anything about my Hip Hop.. I could now just do my Hip Hop moves while swinging out and doing Charleston because now I was doing them to Will Smith and MJ.. So when I would go to a dance and Webb, or Basie were being played I would get bored because I could not incorporate my new stuff to it.. and doing plain old Lindy seemed boring now swing out, swing in, charleston.. blah blah blah.. Forget about wanting to even be in the room if the Tempo went up beyond 145.. no way I could even move that fast.. Give me some Hip Hop and let me dance.

Well thru more education in dance and music from some great teachers, I learned that I dod not have to stop experementing or trying to incorporate other dance forms and styles.. But rather then limiting myself to only being able to dance them to their genre of music.. I learned to change them so they can feel, look, and sound like Lindy.

So in summary fpr me it was a long process of learning that in order for a Hip Hop, Tango, Salsa.. or whatever kind of step you want to incoroprate in your Lindy it must go thru a change.. A change in Structure, look and Feel.. This in my opninon can not be done if it is done to it's original rhythm.. Same works the other way around.. You cannot add groundbreaking new styling steps and crazy lifts into your Lindy without going outside the box.. For me however the changing of steps happen during practice time.. social dancing, no matter what outside influences i may incorporate into my Lindy I try to make them feel, look and sound like Lindy.. Therefore I can do it to more traditional swing music

These are just my opinions and this is my view on things.. Not meant to take away from what anyone has said.. simply to another perspective

man, I just typed out a huge reply (to Chuy) and then firefox froze. I don't feel like spending all that time again, but basically:

I asked if any real/original/traditional/classic jazz/swing music has straight 8th's.

I stated that while different kinds of swing energize chuy, they do the opposite to me. Hip hop and west coast kill my energy and sound like lullaby's, putting me to sleep.

ElChuy:

I think there needs to be moderation in all things, and I have certainly been to dances where they played such a wide mix or a set so heavily emphasized on modern music, or hip hop, or blues that it detracted from the swing and lindy hop feel. However I think doing away with it altogether would be more harmful rather than helpful.

I asked what exactly would doing away with it be harmful to? Lindy hop? Diversity? Crappy dancing? I think it'd be harmful to crappy dancing, which in my eyes would be a good thing. I'm not against one or MAYBE two west coast songs in a night. I'm completely against hip hop. I realize this is a difference in opinion.

I disingenuously compared our scene with DC, LA/OC, Denver, Sacramento/San Francisco, and Seattle to make a point that our music here stinks and that those scenes didn't get to where they are now by having such a crazy mix. A few of them mixed in a few west coast songs, maybe one hip hop song (at camp jitterbug on monday afternoon, when it was all over), and some neo swing here and there (lindy groove). Even in Sacramento and San Fran, where people seem to be crazy about blues blues blues they don't play that much blues at their normal venues. They have blues parties. Am I wrong?

You get what you incentivize. You want a good scene, pattern it after a successful one. You want a bad scene, pattern it after a bad one. If you don't care, you get a bunch of people who don't care.

Yes, I blab a lot about this and don't actually do much. What I do do is support venues I like (or at least have hopes for), dance when I like the music, don't dance when I don't like it (unless I get asked to dance cuz I usually won't say no). I don't DJ yet and I don't run a venue. I'm just hoping enough people will listen so I'm not one of 2 people asking for better music, but 1 out of everyone. If nothing else, we can agree to disagree.

I appreciate Ryan's comments and certainly respect his opinions, and I guess we just come from different ideas and preferences regarding the music we like to hear. And that's fine.

However, we are both agreed on this one point- the music in the utah scene could stand some improvement... after hearing some of the dj's at the national events, it really shows the difference and the sheer variety of good swing music that is out there. I'd love to see some more dj-oriented workshops out there- I know we have a lot of very knowledgeable people as far as music goes, and I would love to see those people get together and talk about how to dj better. I'm no dj, but I'd love to go to something like that.

A few general thoughts come to mind in response to this detail-filled discussion.

1) Music precedes the dance. If we look at the "evolution" of social dance in America, we'll see that it shadows the "evolution" of popular music (on a macro and micro level). Lindyhoppers (in subtly different shapes, forms, and styles) have existed during many of the pop music eras: late 20s-30s w/ the birth of "swing" (of course) on the East and West coasts, late 30-40s with the Big Band era (though many of these bands also played the songs for the foxtrott-ers, waltz-ers, etc...), late 50s-60s with jump blues and the birth of rock 'n' roll.

As for me, the feeling of hot jazz and swing music extends to early R&B and some soul music

Interesting you mentioned that Roach.. I remember a GQ article where Frankie Manning had a strong negative comment about Be Bop jazz at a Dizzy G. perfomance with regards to how the music being played was really not danceable.. In fact when Be Bop pushed Jazz out in the 50's Lindy hoppin' was not allowed at night clubs where Be Bop was played.. Not that you could dance to it anyway.. In my opinion RB and Soul are danceable for sure.. But it doesn't feel like Lindy to me.. I have seen it danced.. and it's more groovy ad funky.. so doing swing outs and charleston seems.. as PTS said a little fruity... But hey this is my biased opinion.. I'm kind of a narrow minded dancer like that [Emoticon not found]

And Roach is right have fun dancing whatever style you choose to do and to whatever music you prefer.. and ummm.. yeah smile more.. maybe we should all just watch Swing Kids again and just start over.. [Emoticon not found] [Emoticon not found]

I knew it!!!!.. That's why u had so many problems on team.. [Emoticon not found]

That's a good article.. I remember reading that way back in the day.. like 99 when the whole Hollywood Vs. Savoy thing came about (this is kind of a familiar discussion) however, when Frankie is talking about dancing to any music I don't think he is talking about doing Lindy Hop to Pop music all the time.. I think to mess around to a song or two here and there he might.. he just might mess with it to be funny.. that's just how Frankie is.. I mean his warm ups are to the Electric Slide.. but he is not doing Llindy Hop to it.. he is doing just that The Electric Slide. He doesn't say "alright everyone! ready 5-6-7-8.. swing out!" I have yet to see Frankie teach a class where he will play The Way you make me feel-MJ, and tell everyone to just feel the music and go at it.. and swing out and swing in and charleston. I agree with the whole music is different now.. But I think that was being said of the Neo-Swing bands that were popping op everywhere at the time.. they had a different feel then traditional Jazz.. and those that were around during the revival of swing know what that i'm talking about. None of us were lucky enough right off the bat to get any good Jazz or even know how to dance to it.. (brings me back to the original discussion of the thread) We danced to what we had available.. our Jazz was limited to big band swing (in the mood, little brown jug, and so forth) as we became more educated in dance and music (when I say we i am talking about myself and friends not eveyone) our preference in music and dance style changed also. We became better in my opinion.. I mean Have you ever been to MAC lately?.. do you see any of the kids there getting any better? Have you heard the kind of stuff that is being played there? What do you think is contributing to their stagnant way of dancing?

In closing, for me the evolution of my dancing began when I was first introduced to a different style and genre of music.. Jazz, traditional Jazz. I explored as much of it as I could until I felt there was no more to explore.. I learned as much Lindy hop as I could until there was no more.. I got burned out because I had no more resources to go to, no one else to watch and no more music to hear.. At that point I ventured into the pop side of music (I am at this point talking as a Lindy Hopper mind you not a swing dancer) that fueled my inspiration only for a very short time.. then I became bored with that.. then I discovered a whole new world of Dance and Music.. I discovered there was a whole well of untapped resource in Jazz music.. all the out of print Jazz available only in Europe, a lot of artists I had not heard of before.. New songs sort of speak, by artists like slim and slam, Fletcher Henderson, Chick Webb, Teddy Wilson, Alex Combelle, The Georgia Washboards, Lil Armstrong and so forth.. now I know that Utah had not even began to discover how to dance or even play this kind of music.. point is I did not hear it, or saw anyone dance to it till 2004 when I went to the Seattle Exchange. Instead it seems like we went straight from Go Daddy-O to Splanky, to Jitterbug Stroll, to The way you make me feel.. and stopped right about there. This is how I saw it anyway.. now if there was dancing going on somewhere in the state where they were doing Lindy to the forementioned artitsts of the era and jamming to Hot Jazz and Dixieland sounds I was completely out of the loop on that. which there very well might be. My point is I don't think we have explored all the ways of dancing to traditional jazz or even the music itself, seems like we are now more focused on a new kind of fusion.. either way I am not PO'd about it I have fun watching.

As a last note I started dancing at the age of 6 breakdancing at the malls and street corners.. I considered myself an old timer in the 90's when Hip hop made it's revival.. and I thought to myself "man everything I am seeing is just a new way of doing poppin and lockin' and brakin'." I thought I know all this I did the original dance.. Hah!! then I saw Lindy and I thought.. Oh ****! this is like the grandfather to what i am doing this is where all our stuff came from. however the music had changed and so had the dancing.

popthestack:

Let's speed it up (how fast it's improving as well as the BPM)!

tbhtbthtbhttbtbhtbh!!! [Emoticon not found]