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There are a lot of good comments here, and several excellent points have been made. I agree that the social dance floor is not a place for extended lessons or arrogant technique corrections. However, as has been mentioned, pain and walking through new moves are both valid reasons for stopping and correcting something in a respectful manner. Feedback is nice ( It has certainly helped me many many times, especially when I first started out ), but it has to be done in a manner that is easily accepted, and most often the feedback should be focused on the positive when dancing with someone that one does not know very well. I don't mean that one should lie or exaggerate, but rather just focus on what is done well. In my own personal experience, it is easier to take negative or more technical feedback from someone that I know well and am comfortable with.
As far as lindy snobbishness goes, I have said in other threads that sometimes I just want to dance some nights with my friends, or be as creative as I can with dancers that are better than I am. Dancing is a social activity, and a lead (and a follow for that matter) does not have any obligation to dance with a certain number of people or type of partner just for having come to the dance. However, that being said, I definitely and wholeheartedly agree that a good indicator of how good a lead is involves whether he can lead a beginning/intermediate follow and make her look good. If he can't, the odds are that his lead is not clear enough, and could use improvement. I also wholeheartedly agree that some of the most enjoyable and fun dances someone can have are with a partner that one has not danced with before and/or beginning to dance. Additionally, it should be noted that while a person does not have an obligation to dance with anyone or solely with new people, if you do care about the scene in your area and remember how it was when you first started out, you will make an effort to be friendly, understanding, and to ask out those who might be too shy to ask you.
Anyways, that's my two cents...
popthestack:Getting hurt in some way is definitely reason for correction. Leads have it easier in this respect though. If a follow jerks or pulls on you too hard it may very well be your own dang fault. I know of one or two follows who have a tendency to jerk or pull really hard. I can, however, dance with them and never get jerked or pulled on too hard. I am the lead, I am in control. If anyone finds themself getting hurt dancing on a regular basis it may just be your own fault. Not as true for follows, but follows can do a lot to protect themselves as well.
I first encountered this when I dragged a newbie onto the floor at a U dance over Christmas break. For some reason she pulled hard enough between swing outs to really strain my elbow, and it has been somewhat fragile ever since.
This pulling frequently comes from less experienced follows, but I've seen a bit of it in few people who have danced longer too. If it only happens once or twice, I assume I made a mistake in my lead and try to fix it. A couple more times, and I will kill my connection and give for their pull so I don't get hurt. A couple more after that and I will correct them.
ElChuy:Anyways, that's my two cents...
Wow, two cents sure does go a LONG (cough*winded*cough) ways now-a-days. [Emoticon not found]
I'm going to have to seriously disagree with consensus here on a few points.
1) Teaching on the dance floor is NEVER okay (unless the person is paying you for lessons and it's an understood extension of that). If she messes up a lead, you can either choose not to lead that pattern again or you can get so good at that lead that even she can't mess it up.
If the partner wants to be taught on the dance floor, they need to understand that it's not the time or the place. It's not polite to interrupt someone's dance for that. And generally speaking, anything you try to learn in that short 3-minute period won't help you much. Lessons happen before the dance. Practice is what happens at the dance.
If the person has a tendency to pull too hard, tell them that you have a hurt wrist and to be gentle or something... commenting is different than teaching. If there is pain involved, try to politely say something to curtail it. That's not teaching; it's just self-preservation.
2) The subject of Lindy snobs (or other swing snobs) is waaaaaay blown out of proportion here. All the things you read on outside forums are talking about situations that you've never seen here in Utah. I personally know a lot of the people you all are likely considering Lindy snobs and they're totally not.
We ALL want to dance with new upcoming beginners. But no one wants to try to tango with someone who's doing polka; surprisingly, most dancers here have not, by the loosest definitions, started learning to dance swing and yet they want to dance their freeform, wrong-footed, unconnected run-around jungle-something with all the best dancers in the room. It's not going to just magically morph into swing. We have an epidemic here, but it's not snobbery.
If you want to stop being avoided by the good dancers, start aggressively learning how to dance better. I can't speak for everyone, but when I see a follow who appears to have really gotten good (even if she was terrible before), I try to fight to get a dance with her. When I see a beginner that is demonstrating some promising beginning swing dancing, I have a strong urge to try her out for a dance or two.
If I see someone who is dancing some unpleasant looking dance that doesn't have ANY of the major elements of swing, I know that dancing with them will only affect me negatively, and I will avoid dancing with them. No matter what you all want to believe, when the so-called "swing snobs" here avoid people like that, they aren't avoiding beginners. They're avoiding people who have not yet begun. Even most of the "advanced" dancers here are just beginners in the real swing world.
We have no problem with snobbery here; we have a problem with mediocrity. If you're feeling left out, get aggressive about learning and learn how to really swing. You don't have to pay money, but you do have to pay in time and effort. There are plenty of resources out there. Please use them; the rest of us are.
your mom's a lindy snob.
I would like to clarify - I haven't really run into any 'snobs' here, I was giving a general dancing pet peeve. I also have to agree with California Man that it is rude pretty much anytime to give instruction unless it is specifically asked for, and even then it's not very cool (unless you move out of the way of other dancers).
Caliman.... concerning my teaching comment, I guess I was referring to more "commenting" or giving feedback rather than teaching/giving a lesson per se....
As far as the snobbery goes.... AMEN!!! The insight that those who do the loose, no connection jungle swing haven't yet begun hit it right on the head. Amen brother!
for some reason i read that those dancers should be "hit right on the head". it must be time for bed.
Midnight? You weak sauce.
Buzz:Midnight? You weak sauce.
Mine says he posted at 1 AM. Fix your time zone profile settings (the forum does not auto adjust for daylight savings).
california:2) The subject of Lindy snobs (or other swing snobs) is waaaaaay blown out of proportion here. All the things you read on outside forums are talking about situations that you've never seen here in Utah. I personally know a lot of the people you all are likely considering Lindy snobs and they're totally not.
My comments about lindy snobs were directed more at the "lindy snobs" outside of Utah. I still think it's either all perceived or those people are snobs in everything they do.
As for the rest of your post, I probably agree.
ElChuy:Caliman.... concerning my teaching comment, I guess I was referring to more "commenting" or giving feedback rather than teaching/giving a lesson per se....
Word.
california:I'm going to have to seriously disagree with consensus here on a few points.
1) Teaching on the dance floor is NEVER okay (unless the person is paying you for lessons and it's an understood extension of that). If she messes up a lead, you can either choose not to lead that pattern again or you can get so good at that lead that even she can't mess it up.
...
2) ...We have no problem with snobbery here; we have a problem with mediocrity.
I'm going to have to seriously (but not too seriously) agree w/ CaliMan on these two parts of his points for sure.
btw is "freeform, wrong-footed, unconnected run-around jungle-something" in wikipedia? If not, it should be.
T_roach:btw is "freeform, wrong-footed, unconnected run-around jungle-something" in wikipedia? If not, it should be.
lol... you're awesome, man. Who'll volunteer to write it?
Not it.
Oh... right... not it!!! [Emoticon not found] hehe...
THe "tick-tock" or reset when a lead brings me in on ONe. Do they want to to swivle to that or what?
I also hate it when follows avoid talking with eachother while wating. People just need to be nice and meet new faces or get to know people.
As for dance snobs, I wonder how many even know that's the aura or feel they are giving off? Just a consdieration.